Srs bsns post: Nintendo LPing

[mindcrack_love]

So for those of you who don't know, Nintendo is claiming Content ID on all Nintendo game LPs on Youtube:

http://www.gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=202693

What does this mean? It means that any ad revenue made on Nintendo LPs goes to Nintendo, not the video maker.

This is awful, utterly crushing for a number of Mindcrackers and other LPers out there. Within Mindcrack, MC is the most obvious, but Pyro and Pause (and possibly others) have also done Let's Plays of Nintendo games, all of which added significant content beyond following the games' internal stories, and now they're not making any money for all the hard work they've done.

I'm pretty sure this has ruined many an LPer's day, finding out one of the most beloved companies has decided to work against their livelihood like this. I feel like we should do something about it as fans of these people's work, but I'm honestly not sure what right now.

Any ideas?

Comments

[scaredykitty]

Uhm, wow. That's rather terrible news. I...I have no idea what to do.

[pink_sheep]

What the hell... Oh dear D: mc talked about it in his stream just a few hours ago and how there was not many details..
This is terrible news.. Mc's whole channel is Nintendo..

I don't know how it can be changed.. It's nintendos choice.. Even if they took a small percentage it would be better but that's just destroying..
Also does this count for live streams? I know most lpers do them for some extra money.. So does this mean mc will recive nothing from his speed runs and such as well..

And zeldathon..

[mindcrack_love]

As far as I know, the current agreement is only between Nintendo and Youtube/Google, so Twitch streams for Partners aren't affected (yet). Who knows how long that'll last, though?

This is something we've all *just* found out - I saw the news going around Twitter and posted immediately - so we'll see what happens in the next few days. Certainly as a community of people who appreciate the extra value a Let's Play brings (as opposed to just showing game content without commentary, which I can see Nintendo rightfully claiming) we should do *something*, possibly contacting Google about it as well as Nintendo.

Zeldathon is a little different, since everything's being donated for charity ANYWAY, I don't think MC (or any of the rest of Zeldathon/Fun for Freedom) get any profit from the work that goes into that week. And it's not like Nintendo's actually pulling content - they're just pulling the money out of the equation. Which is also crushing, but in a different sense than just blocking the videos outright, you know?

What really saddens me is that the Nintendo fan community is its own wonderful community - not just MC, but many others, including some of his idols who are full time Youtubers with pure Nintendo content (e.g. NintendoCapriSun). And MC's always intended to make his channel more about Nintendo than Minecraft. The problem is, now, his hand has been forced in the other direction, no matter how passionate he may be about Nintendo games...and he's a "lucky one" in that he can make revenue off of non-Nintendo content, as opposed to some channels that have never explored that option.

LPers make videos because they strongly believe in the games they play and love them and want to share them - and Nintendo's broken that trust in a big way. It's really tragic.

[pink_sheep]

Ah yeah I remember now about zeldathon being for charity xD I'm new to mc so bare with me!

I knew there where a few 100% nintendoers.. But I wasn't sure who I can only imagine they will fight Nintendo if they can.. Hopefully Nintendo can see sence.. It may be changing ads so they get money - yes fair enough.. But these guys are promoting them. After only a few months of mc I'm seriously considering hunting down a old Nintendo GameCube and playing my heart out of yoshi or something! I never had one.. They beng back the nostalgia especialy to those of us unlucky enough to never had had it. Or have forgotten..
Even if they gave a small amount to these guys or worked WITH then instead of against them.. God couldn't they partner with them instead?

I would imagine there would be many big names of YouTube who would jump at the chance esspecialy such people like those 100% Nintendo players.. They pay them to promote them while getting money everyone wins!

Mc however I don't now about contracts.. Probably could t untill his expired but I would imagine he would try.. Though t would depend n pay, rules and such..

[guiltyshirts]

Oh no, was this why MC was so sad tonight? :(

[isi]

He actually doesn't seem too put off this, as it doesn't affect Twitch and he wants to move more toward livestreaming anyway.

[mindcrack_love]

I wonder how long it'll be before publishers go after Twitch revenue as well, though...

[isi]

WHY.

*stomps around ranting about the sticky business of intellectual property and crap*

[mindcrack_love]

LPing always has been (and will be) a very sticky gray area for intellectual property. Because there is a point of truth: no, a Wind Waker LP cannot exist without Wind Waker. Whatever MC adds to Wind Waker is just that: an addition to Wind Waker, not a substitute for it, not necessarily "its own work". If you don't see MC's talking as adding any value, then yes, everything in the video pretty much should be credited to Nintendo.

Nintendo also has a fear - and a valid one, for the story-driven single player games they tend to make - that watching an LP can be a substitute for buying the game. (To use another example, I have not gone out and gotten a copy of the game, but I am a fan of Sleeping Dogs now that Beef has LPed it. To use yet another non-Nintendo example, there's a big Something Awful forum post going around with a very extensive screenshot LP of the Japanese game Dangan Ronpa, which has created its own English-language fandom without anyone actually importing the game.)

But back to Nintendo and that Wind Waker LP: of course for us, as fans of MC, as people who appreciate him discussing speedrun techniques and trivia while playing a game, it's obvious to *us* that MC is adding real, significant value to the assets of Wind Waker, and that he should be monetarily compensated for it, and maybe some of us want to play Wind Waker because of MC's commentary (and maybe some don't and that's okay).

The question is: does Nintendo value it? And does it value it over claiming what is "theirs" for the work they put into making Wind Waker? Apparently, as of right now, their answer is "no". Which is very sad, and a huge blow to all the Nintendo fans who put so much effort into insightful, humorous, value-adding commentary to the games they love; but as of right now, that decision of value is Nintendo's to make. :(

[isi]

Yes, exactly. Sticky sticky business, and I don't know what to do about any of it.

Also you managed to insert well thought out intelligent discussion in my knee jerk emotional response. I'm impressed.

But while we're having actual discussion here, the first time I discovered LPing was a thing that people could make actual money off of, I was amazed it was legal, for exactly the reasons you talked about here. I'm so used to companies being so tight fisted about their content that even a clip of a copyrighted song in a video would get you insta flagged. Why was video game footage different? But for whatever reason, it was a thing, and I really liked that it was allowed, because that's basically all I do with myself now. I really like when the masses are allowed to use that to create content of their own, even more that it cycled around: LPs generate more interest in the games. That seems like a win win.

And now Nintendo, while they're not disallowing these videos, is swinging the pendulum the other way back to a more "tight fisted" model. It's saddening and unfortunate for the people we care about who make their living off this stuff, but it's not entirely unexpected. And it sucks.

[mindcrack_love]

As a (very tiny) LPer myself, I think about these things all the time. I happen to play games in a tiny, independent community, where the majority of games are open source, and even the ones that aren't are very friendly to LPing, much like Mojang made small. (Most roguelikes are actually free games, and actually free, not pay-to-be-better, so it's a gift economy all around. It makes for a fantastic culture and community, but unless you find some spark to make people give you money, no one is profiting at all.)

But of course, the upshot is I will almost certainly never make enough money to do this for a living, while being a part of the Nintendo community can be enough to bring thousands upon thousands of viewers in. :/

I make roguelike videos anyway though, because I love roguelikes and grew up with them the way MC did Nintendo. My icons elsewhere on the internet are all @ signs, I was almost on Roguelike Radio, I attempted to run an Ancient Domains of Mystery themed tabletop roleplay campaign many years ago...basically my nerdy flailing about difficult turn-based games is a lot like MC's flailing about Zelda. But now, I can make peanuts off of my flailing, and MC can't make (admittedly more) peanuts over his flailing, and that's really hard as an LPer to watch.

[pagat]

Pardon my french, but fuck.

ETA: I want to write up a big ol' rant on Why LPing Is Important, not just for me but for the gaming community as a whole, and why it's such a terrible move to make content scarce. But not right now. Maybe later. It's just, I know indie game companies are probably going to let LPers do their thing. Mojang will, at least. But if Nintendo is taking this step, I can't help but worry other companies are going to take note. And I get why they would want to be payed for the game content they made, but. How many people go out and buy a game because of LPs? How many people who can't afford to buy the game get to see it, and then go out and tell their friends who can buy it? It's just incredibly frustrating. Free publicity, guys! Tons of it! You could be using this as a resource!

And I worry about the guys, too. Especially MC. He was just talking about how good it is to be able to support himself. He's not even 20, that's something to be proud of. Hopefully donations can cover it. And hopefully he's okay. Having the rug pulled out from under you like that can be... I don't know. Hopefully I'm just being a worrywart, and his streaming takes off, and it's nothing more than a little bump in the road.

[nekofan]

From the stories I've heard, most of the affected videos are Mario related. I don't know if this has changed since I slept but it's just something I observed.

I'm fairly disappointed with Nintendo about this. They were one of the better companies to do an LP of because this stuff didn't happen. It's just sad to see Nintendo - who hasn't been on good terms with many people recently due to the WiiU and other such things - shoot themselves in the foot even more.

[(Anonymous)]

I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, some of you may even dislike me for it, but I think Nintendo has every right to do this. It might be mean, it might be unfair to take money from YouTubers, but it's completely within their rights to do so.

While I certainly don't agree with their decision, in fact I'm very sad that it happened, I do think that it's reasonable for them to do it. A lot of YouTubers were making LP's without permission from Nintendo. I would be more upset if it had been a situation in which the YouTuber had explicit permission to record and upload game footage but this was simply not the case (usually). A lot of people were recording and uploading content featuring games licensed by Nintendo without permission and monetising it. They knew the dangers of doing this.

I'm not saying that I blame the YouTubers who did this and I'm not siding with Nintendo. All I'm saying is that Nintendo is still a business and they still want to make money and YouTubers were still uploading that content without permission and monetising it. Even though nobody thought they would do it it has still always been a possibility that Nintendo would do this.

[damnreddit]

Personally I don't know what's the point of talking about "within their rights" over what is essentially a moral outrage.

I don't have any ideas and I expect that MC and other LPers are simply shit out of of luck. I'm also a pessimist and doubt this will be the last company to pull something like this.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it's a moral outrage, but whether their decision was fair or not doesn't matter. That's not how business works.

[mindcrack_love]

Then I'll use my tiny bit of business power and boycott Nintendo products until they come to a more sensible solution, and I'm ready to accept that could mean just never playing a Pokemon game again. Additionally, I'm going to redouble my efforts to support developers who DO support the tiny, cottage LP making industry.

(I actually had my partner cancel a preorder of Pokemon X that they'd gotten for me after this happened, so it's not just blind threats.)

[pagat]

I still fail to see how pissing off loyal customers and undermining the community of their fans "works" for a business, then. It absolutely matters whether they're being fair. A good business takes care of its costumers. Simple as that.

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously it's not the best decision...if it were any other company. If this was some indie company that did this, you'd be sure that their games wouldn't be bought at all.

But this is Nintendo. They don't need that publicity to continue to be successful. They made it without lets players in the past and they can still do that. People are still going to buy their games regardless of if they see an LP of that game or not.

[pagat]

Well, I think you're certainly right in that regard. This is still a bad move, though, with already lower than expected sales on their new console and a sparse game lineup. But the important thing is, even if they as a company will be fine, the community will suffer, and they should care about that. They're successful because of us, the consumers. I don't think Nintendo needs let's plays, but it does need its fans.

Besides that, Nintendo is a huge company, and hugely influential. It's hard not to see it as an attack on the community. If there's not enough outcry, other big developers might decide to do the same. Not that an all indie LP community would be that bad, but it would be pretty rough for established LPers.

[pagat]

I understand that they're within their rights as a company. But as a business strategy, pissing off a huge portion of your fanbase and pulling the rug out from one of the biggest sources of hype, nostalgia, and love?

Besides that, it's a bit like trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube. The format's been around for years now. A bit odd to suddenly decide to pull the plug on it.

[(Anonymous)]

That really only affects indie companies that need their name out there so that people know about them. LP's are a good thing for them because more people hear about their game.

However, pretty much everyone knows Nintendo. Pretty much everyone has played a Nintendo game in their life. They don't need lets players to tell people about them because people already know.

[pagat]

I'm afraid I disagree. Everyone knows Nintendo, but how many people would still care about old games if it weren't for these online communities? They don't need lets players, obviously, but it's such a waste. That's basically free publicity. Again, I understand why they would chose to do it, and it's within their rights. But it is such a huge part of the online gaming community that to go after them seems like a mistake.

[mindcrack_love]

I do agree that the lack of permission is an issue (this is why I myself almost entirely LP open source games). And yes, Nintendo "has the right to do it". But SHOULD they have done it, and SHOULD they have approached it the way they did? I disagree.

What I don't agree with is the concept that Nintendo deserves *all* of the revenue from videos made from games they've made. They do deserve some if they want it*, but to completely ignore what the LPer brings to the table seems shortsighted, and frankly a little insulting to the fans who work so hard to make wonderful video.

* It has actually been brought up that Mojang could have profit-shared the ad revenue on Minecraft videos but decided to decline. Note Notch says "a cut": i.e., LPers would still get some revenue, though a fraction of what they get now. (And as we know, LPers don't actually make THAT great of a living unless they are utterly phenomenal at money management and bringing in new viewers - this would have made the barrier to full time LPing higher.)

I wish Nintendo had taken this option instead: throw the LPers a bone, however small, for all the work they've already done and would continue to do. Instead they decided that LPing holds no monetary value for the video maker...and frankly, that's really insulting and shitty.

[(Anonymous)]

The matter of if they SHOULD have done it isn't the issue here. They can't do anything else. This is what they're legally obligated to do. Uploading and monetising videos containing content copyrighted by Nintendo is illegal.

Morally, it might not be right, but they can't make their decisions based on morality. They have to make their decisions based on the law and the law says that you can't monetise videos containing copyrighted content without permission.

To be quite honest, people are getting off easy. Their Adsense account could have easily been locked and because it uses their social security number, they wouldn't be able to make money from YouTube ever again. That's a lot worse than losing revenue from their videos.

[isi]

No one is arguing that it isn't within their rights. I said I'm not entirely surprised by this, but that doesn't stop me from being peeved at what they're doing to their consumers in the LP community. I'm just more sympathetic toward the consumers who make the business successful rather than the business itself.

[theropod]

If only there was some way to LPers to get in contact with Nintendo and work out some kind of deal that would benefit both. In essence, the LPs are free advertising. I know for a fact I had zero interest in Skyrim before I watch Zisteau play it and now I have two copies of it, one bought by me, the other by my mum. I only bought it because I got to see an Lp of it beforehand and enjoyed it, to the point I bought a second copy because I couldn't take the original from the house (direct download to the xbox you see). So though that one LP, the company got two copies of the game purchased by one person.

If you ask me, the LPers deserve at least a little something : / If they try to take away the charity from Zeldathon next (and frankly, I wouldn't put it past Nintendo, the dicks) then something is going to give way.

[isi]

If you guys haven't seen it yet, MC has a response video and I think he does a great job at keeping a well balanced approach as always. Much respect for how he handled that. I'm still annoyed at Nintendo, but there's not much to do about that part.

[(Anonymous)]

Ampresand here, having trouble logging back in.

Nintendo is making a pretty poor choice here by choosing to take all ad revenue away from Youtubers who LP their games. This is a situation where two businesses are playing off of each others products and make choices pertaining to that, especially for the full-time youtubers, who have to take a business-like approach to youtubing because it is their business. I think this is what Nintendo is overlooking. Monetized videos are more likely to show up on full-time youtubers' channels. I think Nintendo sees the youtubers as strictly playing the games and sharing them for fun, and doesn't realize that the full-time youtubers have to make choices based on view count and how much money they're making. For example, Doc was doing a wonderful regular LP of NBA2012, but not many people watched it, so he had to reduce it to a non-regular series. The same thing happened with Bdubs, and he removed it completely despite both series being wonderful content, because people weren't watching it, so they weren't making money. I feel like this is going to affect youtubers in a similar way. If they aren't making money off it, they will remove it from their channels. The number of Nintendo content videos will go way down, reducing the free publicity and the revenue from these ads. Some youtubers may actually remove the Nintendo videos from their channels in protest. In short, while this choice might bring a small sum in the short term, it will not help and will likely hurt in the long run.

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