OOG - Deathly Trails ep42

[guiltyshirts]

Bdubs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3zxFlfHF24&feature=youtu.be&a
Guude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHlDeSMtwwc&feature=youtu.be&a

Classic drunk OOG shippiness here tonight, especially when they start talking about the sleeping arrangements for Minecon.

Comments

[placeblocks]

Oh man, I was just about to post about this, so thank you. Bdubs is such a cuddly sounding drunk sometimes. I love how he's all "We'll all sleep together" and how they're sort of jealousy talking about rooming with different people. It's REALLY WEIRD to me though that they're having this conversation NOW while playing a game they're recording. Like... they didn't discuss room sharing and stuff when the tickets and hotels first were announced? That's... weird.


Also, here's a topic for discussion--Bdubs obsession with "being a man." I can never tell if he's joking or not. Obviously he does all these semi-queer things with Guude and the other guys, so I feel like he's not totally afraid of not being seen as "a man." But then he comes out with some statements that I just find offensive. Like "real men" don't drink wine, or something. I vaguely remember him saying that dancing wasn't something "a man" did, either, and so forth. I like to assume he's joking, but I get the sinking sensation he really does sort of think that way, and I find it upsetting. I find any blanket statement about a gender like that upsetting, whether it's "real women have curves" (no, real women come in all shapes and sizes, tyvm), or "real men drink beer" or whatever bullshit. I could rant on this topic for a while, to be honest. Parto f me thinks Bdubs has this mentality and keeps going back to it to convince OTHER people he's not "a sissy" or perceived as gay or something, probabl due to upbringing/religion, etc. But on Mindcrack pretty much no one adheres to those sexist tropes, Guude usually least of all. So, it tends to put Bdubs in this weird situation where he's allowed to act himself/not "manly" (in quotes to mean his perspective of manly), but then he tries to compensate when he realizes he is, and Guude's just like, ".... I drink wine all the time" or whatever shit.

IDK. It's a weird aspect of Bdubs' personality/character/whatever that I really struggle with. I can't decide if he actually believes some of the offensive-to-me things he says, or if he's just parroting what he's been raised to say or what.

[guiltyshirts]

I can only guess that in the waiting and waiting and then subsequent kerfuffle to actually book the tickets and then try and grab rooms they just ended up separate. Bdubs did say that GB booked theirs.

The whole 'man' thing... I think sometimes he's trying to fit into the role that he thinks he *should* have, the sort of stereotyped male thing. Sometimes he does that thing of complaining about his wife - only a little bit, but it's the stereo-female things like spending money, or using so much hairspray. Because those are the things a man is either 'safe' or 'supposed' to complain about. It goes along with the whole stuff like men not drinking wine etc. I think it may well not even be a conscious thing, he's just trying to 'make up' for the 'non-manly' stuff like being all shippy with Guude. Like, he doesn't actually truly believe that men don't drink wine, etc. And like you mentioned, it could be what he was raised with too.

Please excuse the overuse of quote marks there. >.< Gah.

[placeblocks]

No worries on the over use of quote marks. I did too, because I absolutely don't agree with those statements and thus have to off-set them with the quotes so you know it. XD

And you're right about him complaining about his wife, and other things that sometimes seem so forced and out-of-nowhere. I guess that's why I feel like he's just saying things he thinks he's "supposed" to say "as a man." It just makes me sad because I feel like he must at least partially believe in them if he's actually saying them. I dunno. But it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth sometimes when he goes off on these tangents. Hell, I remember once he was ranting about people who "sleep in" and how he just views them all as super lazy bums, even if they went to bed at 3am or something. It's just so stupid, and to me is obviously something his father or mother "taught" him to believe, despite the fact that it makes no fucking sense. (If you work a graveyard shift and get off work at 4am, you are NOT A LAZY BUM if you sleep until noon. And frankly, if you stay up until 4am recording videos for your YouTube job and then sleep until 1pm, you're not a lazy bum, either.) And I KNOW that several of the Mindcrackers keep "flipped" schedules like that, and I don't THINK Bdbus actually thinks they're lazy bums, but yet he says shit like that, so I feel like I have to judge him based on what he actually does and not what I THINK he thinks.

It just makes me sad and frustrated sometimes.

[mindcrack_love]

Guude is the Busy Man with the Family, and between that and Mojang's incompetence I can easily see there just being a lack of communication. Which is sad, because it's OOG and there shouldn't be a lack of communication, but life sucks sometimes.

AND WELCOME TO THE ONE THING I HATE ABOUT BDUBS HOUR. *coughs loudly* EDIT: As the Snarky Yellow Text who is also the moderator's more rational side, I apologize very deeply for the rant that follows, but Ms. Mod is crazy passionate about the concept of gender weirdness and acknowledging its existence, so.

I am so so with you on the "fuck gender norms" thing (okay, and "fuck the concept of gender itself sometimes"). I think a lot of it is his upbringing making him instinctually believe certain things and believe certain things are necessary/normal without realizing how wrong and offensive they are. I've been witnessing a lot of this recently due to the family wedding I went to; things like my teenaged future brother-in-law saying he'd be weirded out by a female President and not really sure why he feels that way nor why I was offended by the sentiment. When you're surrounded by bigotry, it becomes instinct after a while and you don't even realize how horrible you're being unless people call you out on it, and even then it can be hard to shake.

I love Bdubs to death - one of my favorite commentators and LPers - but his insistence that people are a certain way, that marriage is a certain way, that he can't share things with his wife around - bothers the HELL out of me, CONSTANTLY. I believe that marriage - any romantic relationship, really - is all about sharing things, especially the things that you're passionate about and throw your life into. I hear all about my partner's work/research and probably could be a co-writer on their research papers if I really insisted; we play each other's video games; we try each other's hobbies. They've been to pubs to watch soccer with me, and while they're not a huge fan of the game they're patient with me and understand the appeal. I'll never brew beer, but I'll listen to recipes and taste test, and again I understand the appeal.

The fact that Bdubs feels the need to hide some of his gaming - the thing that not only is his hobby and his passion but is now also his livelihood - from his wife BOTHERS THE CRAP OUT OF ME. I feel like he lives two lives - his work/gaming life and his romantic/domestic life - and it makes me both sad and angry that he feels they can't mix, because I feel they should.

I feel he's still holding onto some crazy idea of what the "picture-perfect" wife and marriage looks like, that if a relationship doesn't look like it does in sitcoms then there's something wrong, that women and men are meant to do certain things separately and other things together, and those spheres can't mix. And man, that's just so not true, and I...ugh. THESE ARE NOT GOOD FEELS.

[guiltyshirts]

Yeah, it *is* really frustrating. :/

[guiltyshirts]

Maybe it feels worse to us because Bdubs is so much of a sweetheart in all other ways? He's just such a nice, lovable guy it seems like a bigger thing/flaw.

Totally with you on all the other stuff. My other half has even come to anime/gaming cons with me, he enjoys the people-watching and appreciates my enthusiasm for cosplay even though it's not his thing. I'm quite happy to listen to him expound on whatever odd thing has annoyed him today, because I'll usually end up learning something. <3

[placeblocks]

Yeah, I definitely hear you on this. It's okay to not share EVERYTHING with your partner. I can totally see her being like, "I don't need to know all the details, honey. Just have fun." But that's very different than hiding it from her, or not feeling comfortable with telling her. And the double-life, yeah. I don't know what he can do, though. Because he's presented one side to his wife, presumably, and that's the man she married, so I can see why he feels the need to keep them separate now. The whole "dug a bed, now lie in it" basically. (Whether or not that's the "right thing" to do.) But I do also like to believe that he really does enjoy both aspects. He'll bitch about things he has to do with his wife, like "riding bikes" or watching romance movies with her, but I feel like when he complains about those things, he's doing it for his audience, to "appear manly" and not necessarily because he didn't enjoy them or whatever... I dunno. Obviously this is all just my intuition.

But yeah. I love Bdubs, same as you, but a lot of those things he says/does really, really bother me. It colors my view of him a lot, as well as how I'd characterize "Bdubs." (Vs. John.) So, I dunno. I dunno. I wonder if any of the other guys call him on it. I mean, if I was on Mindcrack and Bdubs said something like "REAL MEN DON'T DRINK WINE" or some other bullshit that I do, I'd call him out on it. I'd like to believe someday Guude would call him out on it and be like, "You know, that's not cool." Like, I know Guude is the cook in his house. He went to culinary school, and he does most/all of the cooking for his family. According to Bdubs-logic, that'd probably make Guude "not a man." Or "not manly" or some bullshit. I just dunno if Guude'd ever call him out on it.

[mindcrack_love]

Yeah, that's a lot of it. I expect that sort of thing from people who show other signs of douchery, not from the sweetheart LPer who cares so much about his viewers and his fellow gamers. (Which is also why hearing bigotry from my in-laws - the people I've learned to love, the people my partner immensely loves and respects and values - is so, so hard. But that's a personal thing.)

Funny enough, going to nerdy conventions is something we have done together as a couple, but we met at a science fiction/fantasy club in college, so. That's their reaction to going to soccer bars and watching the Champion's League with me, though - and that's perfectly legitimate and okay!

Like, does Nicole really not want to learn anything about the games he's playing, not care at all about his amazing builds and intense PVP and the friendships and (not-romantic) relationships he's making? That makes her sound like a terrible wife, which is its own kettle of fish. Or is it that John thinks he *has* to hide these things from her because he thinks she wouldn't care? What's worse?

[mindcrack_love]

That's plausible - that he represents himself a certain way, that he pretends to resent things because he's playing into that sitcom husband role. (Even though as a self-employed entertainer through the power of the Internet he's anything but "typical", and his best friend in this arena is basically a stay-at-home father who brings in extra money by also selling his hobby...)

I wonder if in private Jason tried to call John out on his bullshit and it went horribly wrong, the way that me trying to call out my in-laws on their bullshit went horribly wrong? I wonder if that in some tiny secret way has been a wedge in their friendship/relationship?

[placeblocks]

The Jason calling John out on shit scenario has definitely crossed my mind and made me wonder, especially as they have been doing less stuff together, and the room arrangements for Minecon had further made me speculate. But then we get this episode where it seems like they've just somehow not been talking for the last three months, so IDK. Or maybe that did happen and John's since "come around" or something, I dunno. Possibly it was more subtle, like Guude mentally thinking, "Well, if that's the way he feels about XYZ, fuck him" only not so strong, just more in a "I'm not going to go out of my way to make time for him if he treats me like this" or something. I DUNNO. They're clearly still buddies, so whatever it is, it can't have been anything too catastrophic.

Bdubs COMPLETE LACK OF "MANLINESS" I think is why he so often has to reassure himself/people that he's TTLY MANLY. I think he is naturally not very "manly" and in an ideal world he'd be more like Guude and totally fine with that, and fuck you if you've got a problem with it. But I suspect his upbringing has taught him that it's not okay, so he's got to constantly reassure everyone/himself that he's TTLY A MAN. And it's really sad, and I suspect part of him DOES believe what he says because of upbringing/unintentional-brainwashing types of stuff, but I don't think he REALLY believes those things. I mean, how could he be friends with someone like Guude or Pause if he truly believed that stuff? (Though I guess it could be "Well, it's okay for Guude, because Guude's Guude, but I could never be like that. People'd think I was homosexual. Not that there's anything wrong with being homosexual!") (And that's another thing--I've heard him say "homosexual" a lot instead of the more common "gay." That's just another one of those brainwashy tactics I've seen people do to "other" gays from straights. It's a "scarier" word and makes some people react more negatively to it.) (I am really rambling and assuming a lot here, but I just envision that Bdubs comes from a very religious, traditional sort of background and has had to prove himself a lot. He can't really escape his upbringing, and some of those beliefs are ingrained in his head, even if he doesn't believe them.)

[placeblocks]

Are you drawing from specific examples with regards to Nicole's interest/lack of interest in John's job? Because she did judge that one competition with him, and while she clearly didn't "get" it, to me it was a partner sharing something with her partner because he loves it and she loves him, etc. I know Bdubs has made some sort of crass comments about her, or in the "MINECRAFT WEEKEND" sort of mentality, but I'm curious if there are more things I've missed specifically.

[mindcrack_love]

I was mostly drawing from the fact that he only livestreams when she's not there/Minecraft Weekend kind of stuff, and just the general vibe I get from when he talks about when he records. It could be completely unfounded for all I know, though.

[placeblocks]

I've picked up on aspects of it myself, so I definitely think there's something there. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt because she seems to support him going into YT fulltime, but I do feel like she doesn't really like/get it all the same.

[mindcrack_love]

Oh, if anything happened between Jason and John, it's not catastrophic at all, as Deathly Trails continues to prove - but I wonder if it's changed the flavor a bit, become this tiny elephant in the room that might become a big huge elephant over time if they're not careful, you know? ...I am continuing to project my issues with my in-laws here and ugh I'M SO SORRY.

I definitely feel you on that, with regards to upbringing and "masculinity"! Again, my partner's background is definitely that religious/traditional type (I hate you, Cuban Catholic machismo) and it took years - YEARS IN CAPS - to even begin to realize that my queerness was something to take seriously even though I'd only ever been in heterosexual relationships, or that gender weirdness, while a little weird, isn't something that only happens to "freaks" and in fact, was even something that applied to them.

John got intensely pressured to be part of his father's contracting/building business, didn't he, and turned out to hate it, right? And it took him years to admit that he hated it, that he'd rather be an entertainer, that doing Youtube full time was the right decision for his sanity. (From the last videos Bdubs released before going full time with Youtube it sounded like he was really, EXTREMELY miserable, and it was ruining both his gaming life and his romantic life. Props to Nicole for being supportive then and actually seeming like she encouraged him to pursue the Youtube option more deeply - I know I've been ragging on her and that's quite unfair to her given that.)

From experience (again, my partner's life) folks in those industries - especially older ones who have been in power in those industries for a very long time - tend to be very, very conservative and have a very clear concept of "what makes a man", and I can definitely see that shaping poor John in a negative way. I can see him spending much of his life proving to his family and employees that he's worthy of being the heir to the business, that he can be savvy and strong and earn respect from clients and employees alike - and having that shape how he thinks he has to be.

I sincerely hope someone - whether it be Guude or someone else - shows him that gender identity is what you make of it, no more and no less.

[placeblocks]

Yes, Bdubs was just miserable in those last few episodes before he quit full time. It's really raw and sad and emotional, and just shows how much he tries to be the "man" his father wants despite that totally not being who he is. And I got a lot of respect for Nicole from all that too since it sounds like she does support him in the YT thing, even if she may not understand/get it. And I get THAT. I've had partners who looooooved something that I totally didn't get, no matter how much I tried to get it. And that was okay. Sometimes maybe I got a little jealous (because it seems like so much fun and I want to have fun with you, too!), but mostly I was happy for them to go off and have fun and do their thing, because I had things I do on my own as well. So I hope it's like that and Bdubs just projects his "macho men make sexist comments about their wives sometimes!"

I hope too that someone shows Bdubs more diversity. I feel like Mindcrack is an amazing chance for him to be exposed to that stuff--the real "freak" of the world, and really embrace them and figure out where his place is. Quitting his contracting job and doing this fulltime really has to help. These are his people now. This is where he belongs, and he's got to accept that, and fit in. For all of his age (apparently he just turned 30?), I sometimes feel like he's still really figuring himself out. And I suppose that makes sense if he was sort of molding himself into the man his father wanted him to be vs. the man HE wanted to be for so long. But it sometimes makes him feel a lot younger than he is, like 24-26 or something. But, better late than never.

I really feel like Minecon is going to be this big event that will Change Everything for some reason. I think bonds will be forged or broken, dynamics will shift, things will happen. Probably it won't, but since I'm consuming this fandom like a media, it's like The Season Finale for me, I think, so I feel like it's scripted to be Epic.