mindcracklove | On branching communities and fragmentation

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discussion,
meta

On branching communities and fragmentation

Alternate title: Hi Tumblr, I see you.

Meta talk time! As some of you know, there's a good handful of Mindcrack fans over at Tumblr, and because Tumblr is the ultimate hive of all things fandom and shipping, it's no surprise that the kind of Mindcrack fans on Tumblr already overlap with community members here. But the parts I find interesting are where there isn't overlap. There are fanartists there who never post their work to the subreddit, and I've seen a fair amount of fanfiction there that never gets seen here. Collectively it's like a whole new branch of the Mindcrack community, with content unique to that site not found elsewhere. And in some ways, this is really cool, to see how communities branch off from the main hub and develop on their own. It's like how this place came to be as a more ship friendly place than the subreddit. These new splinters of the collective fanbase develop to serve different needs. There's going to be a different feel in each new place that develops, which is great for people who may not like or fit into the prevalent atmosphere of the mainstream hubs like the subreddit.

In other ways, though, I find it kind of frustrating. Not because I have to subscribe to different avenues of fanwork sharing to keep up with everything that's going on, even though I did resist Tumblr for quite some time and finally caved in because there was Mindcrack stuff, but because it starts to feel fragmented after a while. I'm still in a mindset where I want certain things to be centralized in one spot. General discussions, fanart, and video lists go on the subreddit. Different kinds of discussions, shipping squee and fanfic go here. There have been a number of individual cases of Mindcrack fanfic appearing on various different sites, and that's fine. I find those isolated cases fascinating. And the Mindcrack content on Tumblr was a lot like a series of isolated cases, mostly of general fanart that may or may not appear later on the subreddit, with an occasional mention of someone's ships. But more recently... there's been some stuff. Fellow Tumblr users probably know what I'm talking about. Stuff involving a sort of collaboration of people, coalescing in a series of back and forths, focusing on Things that make me want to yell "GET TO THE DAMN SALAD" to everyone involved. It is my impulse to want to consolidate notable happenings of the shipping to a centralized spot.

However.

I started thinking, if some of these people aren't already involved here, which is the case, why not? There's already a space for that sort of thing, and this place seems to be well known enough that I don't think it's a case of not knowing we exist, so there must be some other reason. Maybe it's because we're relatively well known, and with "certain people" known to be watching, I can understand someone not wanting their thoughts and works to be too widely seen (which is why I am not including links). Maybe there's something else about the format of Tumblr that they prefer, even if I can't think of what it is. Tumblr is good for certain things, but fostering active communication is not one of them, which is more my preference. Others may have different preferences, so maybe I'm being selfish wishing those fragments involved in the shippy aspects of Mindcrack would migrate over here once in a while. But I do wonder if there is a way to bypass some of the inhibitions people have delurking for the first time, like maybe an occasional thread where everyone's encouraged to comment anonymously, more like the original prompt thread before the community officially existed. I don't know, but I do want new people to feel comfortable participating if they're interested in the things we do. Yes I'm looking at you, Tumblr people.

And I do want to hear other's thoughts. How do you feel about separate pockets of the shipping community? Should we try to consolidate them to one place or let them be, even if the lack of centralization means potentially missing out on some good content? Also, if you are/were a lurker, what kept you away, and what would make you want to participate in shipping related things on a platform like Tumblr rather than here?

**A Clarification** I don't want to give the impression I want to pressure anyone to join or participate if they don't want to. My intent is merely to understand and possibly learn how to make sure we're not doing anything that's turning people away. Perhaps this post was not the best way to go about this, so if I've made anyone uncomfortable, I apologize. I'd hate to think I've marred whatever tenuous relationship I have with anyone I follow on Tumblr. But if you simply have no desire to participate in this community, that is perfectly fine and I won't bother you any further. Sorry for the inconvenience. I'll go back to reblogging silly cat gifs, okay?

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My guess is that Tumblr is, for whatever reason, their stomping ground, so it doesn't even occur to them to crosspost or check other venues for it. It's kind of weird to me, but I don't know if I think it's intentionally neglecting this area. (Though of course knowing Guude, MC and potentially others lurk here does add another level of awkward.) I've tried to find Mindcrack stuff on Tumblr before, but it seems 90% to me to be people tagging their FTB stuff Mindcrack, so I've given up on that. Have you asked them to crosspost, or perhaps asked if they mind if you crossposted their links here so we could appreciate them?

Heh, yeah finding stuff on Tumblr is a big ball of good luck if you don't already know where to look, and it's so easy to miss stuff you do want to see. And even if you do know who to follow, you can't just get the Mindcrack stuff without also getting everything else they reblog because no one tags anything, so it's a big mess if you don't want to deal with all that. That's a lot of my reasoning in wanting a "centralized" location for this kind of stuff.

As for crossposting, the example I'm thinking of actually included the creator asking people not to reblog it because they didn't want it to be seen, so I'd guess that one's a no go. And sometimes people submit anonymously to someone else's blog, so I don't even know what to do with that.

I am so guilty for not tagging crap and you ust be utterly sick of some of the stuff I must flood your dash with. Pretty sure you don't follow me for the Transformers-related sobbing I do on a monthly basis >_> So, uh, sorry for that.

Heh, I'm used to it. Your blog actually turned out to be one that I most like/reblog despite all the Transformers stuff.

Thats a surprise :D But thank you, that's sweet of you to say <3

...I'm actually sitting here laughing my ass off because I know exactly what you're talking about and... em, I'm the one who wrote the fic. I thought about crossposting it here, I honestly did, but I'm a little shy about my PWP.

You were the HELLO SALAD anon, weren't you? Any chance you know who some of those other anons were? Hehe.

Hahaha, that's awesome. I wondered how many of those anons were people from here. But no, I did not send the salad message. I'm not any of the anons. There was another fic written by darkforestwarrior, and I know she's a member here. Other than that I don't know who else is involved.

I would love to track some of them down for a chat. I wonder if they're from around here. I didn't think y'all would take notice of tumblr happenings, but apparently there's more overlap than I thought.

Should I crosspost that fic after all? It's my first smut in a while and I don't know how good it is, but I'm a little proud of it.

Heh, like I said, I like keeping track of what's going on.

If you're okay with everyone reading it, go for it. I thought it was lovely, and I'm sure some people here would get a kick out of it.

I probably would.

Only crosspost if you want to. Buuuut I wouldn't mind a link? Just to read :3

I know, now I'm seeing all these mentions of fanfic I haven't read and I'm all like "where!"

I don't think that you or I would have a particular leg to stand on as regards being considered weird, would we? :D

(screened comment)

I liked it!

I have screened this comment because the owner of the blog this links to seems to not be taking it well. I would recommend you host the fic elsewhere to share it here, without linking to the original Tumblr post.

Of course.

I have never been to tumblr. Man, I feel like I'm missing some interesting stuff now! Come here people, satisfy my intense curiosity! Otherwise I'll get sister to show me yet another of her sites, and properly annoy her more. Alas.

I think one of the main aspects here is personal preference. Tumblr is a blogging platform; mindcracklove a forum. Depending on what kind of a blog you have (and from what I've seen most mindcrack blogger on tumblr have personal or mixed fandom related blogs) you are more likely to post personal stuff on your blog than on a forum. From my own experience: If I notice something small in a video and it makes me squee, but I don't consider it worth a discussion, I'll post it on Tumblr. Just because I'm more of a blog-person and less of a forum-person. Which is fine, and which is also the reason why I think that there will always be an overlapping between Tumblr and mindcracklove (or other communities for that matter).

Having said that, I agree with your wish to have 'everything in one spot'. At least when it comes to things like Fanart, Fanfiction and other bigger projects/discussion topics. I can understand that people don't want to post their WIP's here, but the finished product here or on the subreddit would be nice.

Of course tagging things on Tumblr would help us immensely with finding new content there, but barely anyone really uses it (guilty as charged!). I don't think there is much we can do about it aside from setting a good example.
Also the mindcrack tagged FTB stuff annoys me to no end and I don't think we can do much about that either.

All in all it is desirable to centralize most of the shipping related content, preferable on mindcracklove as it is the better platform to talk to each other, although I think we will only achieve a larger overlap between the communities.
We can just be as open as we are (open-minded and open for others to join) and hope that people will find their way to us and the courage to participate.
It was just the other day that I was talking to a fellow Vechs/Zisteau shipper (on Tumblr) who wasn't aware that we even had a community like this! Maybe we are not as known as we think? Or rather: How do people find us if they only use Tumblr and don't assume that there might be another community out there?

I wish to meet more Vechs/Zisteau peoples O_O

*waves*

Yay! I'm going to hug you and pet you and call you George! I mean.

I need to go write more once my brain has ideas and isn't exhausted from being at that Star Trek convention. Wheeeeee!

Woo I now have two boy names!

:D

*waves along with kitsunemusume*

Squee! Hugs for everyone!

Those are good points. I can see how people would prefer the blog style more where everything's personalized to their tastes rather than a forum where it's more like fitting into a group. Though technically Dreamwidth is a blog site like Live Journal, but it's a different kind of blog style than what Tumblr is, and the way we use DW just happens to be more forum like. It's not like many (if any) of us was already using DW for our blogging needs before this community was a thing, and most of us probably never will.

I did say we seem to be relatively well known, because in the few instances where I did casually allude to this place to someone else, they seemed to already know about it, but certainly there are plenty of people who don't know. But if those people would potentially enjoy a place like this, it's easy to find us if they look, and even if they don't look, those are the instances like what you experienced where we find them, as long as they make their presence known.

I don't particularly like tumblr. I never used it and I just can't seen to get it, I don't know why, it's just so suffocating it feels,
I guess it's my inner introvert for small groups than a huge multi million fan base. I like reddit but I will rarely comment as the more people you get they hate on people with differing opinions and don't give you a chance to explain.. Same with tumbler from a diffrent experience that put me off it, where hear and other small communities you seem to be able to have a decent debate and explain and learn new ideas/ oppintions,

Also tumbler isn't amazing for finding stuff, like its been said unless you know what your looking for or how to its a huge mess of stuff..

I can definitely understand how it's not for everyone. Different branches of communities cater to different audiences. Like you, I prefer having discussions, and for me this has been the best place for that. I've since developed a fondness for Tumblr, but for entirely different reasons.

I admit, I use tumblr /way/ more often than DW and I visit the Mindcrack tag more often than I go here, even though 90% of the time, the content is much better here. The reason I use it more is mostly that I'm more used to it and it's easier to use. Maybe, if people have heard of this community, they're turned off because they have to learn how to use a whole new website.

And then of course there is the fact that this community is barely known, but it would be cool if we had more people here, especially since the shipping people on Tumblr seem very nice.

I think this community is more well known than we expect. I have always assumed lots of people lurk here without posting (they might be just shy or not know what to say or feel awkward, or various other things)

True, true

Tumblr is less centralized than mindcracklove. If you find a group of people who share your mindcrack shipping interests, you can tag it whatever you'd like and share it with just them, especially if you're embarrassed about writing semi-RPF. Also this place is frequented by Mindcrack members, and some people might not be comfortable with that!

I was thinking the other day of posting links to the stuff I've written here with tags for mindcrack and such, rather than just reposting there. That way people would be linked back here and might get more interested? I dunno, I was also thinking of just waiting until I'd finished the epilogue for the Bribery series first.

" started thinking, if some of these people aren't already involved here, which is the case, why not?"

Some people have posted stuff on other fanfiction sites. Others post art or fb/tumblr or DA. So don't think tumblr just has a MC fanbase. It's not because we don't like here (hell all you guys are ace) but we just prefer to post on our own profiles rather than a forum. Also You guys are quite close to the mc guys, some have posted here and that scares some of us, it also scared some of your earlier posters and they asked to close their stories.

You don't need to subscribe to everyone cause there is so many of us everywhere. Plus I feel the writer/artist shouldn't be pressured to write here or post art on the reddit. If they wish to post on one site that's cool. You also presume some don't post here. Not at all I know someone who uses another alias for here, and that's cool too. And their is a lot of lurkers who love the site and pass it on to other people.

See I can see where you are coming from but at the same time you can't pressure people into posting their stuff here or the reddit. The reddit has 20,000 people on it...looking at your work and some people can't take the pressure or the fear of their work being criticized. Well it would be nice for one place to have all the stories and so forth, it couldn't happen as people just prefer to post their work on their website. heck i have a load of stories that I will never post cause i know people and fans will just call me a freak. It might end up people being scared and not posting anything on tumblr at all at the fear a mindcracker will laugh at them.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree no one should be pressured to participate on a certain platform if they don't want to, so if I came off that way, I apologize. Everyone has different preferences, and that's fine. It was just my impulse to make sure notable content can be found by those who would be interested, and I personally don't find Tumblr a good place for that since everything's so scattered. But it's possible some people prefer that structure of their old posts being nigh unsearchable and never being seen by too many people. If that is their preference I wouldn't argue with that. It's up to each individual to decide how and where to present their work.

Since you mentioned it, the topic of Mindcrackers' presence here is one I keep thinking about, since it seems like that fact is going to inhibit some people no matter what, and there's no good way to get past that that I can think of. Personally, I went into this thinking that posts made publicly on the internet are going to be seen sooner or later by someone who is not the intended audience, so I might as well get used to the idea. I always thought it was inevitable that the Mindcrackers would discover this stuff on their own eventually, so it was less of a shock when they confirmed this. But not everyone feels the same way, and that sense of shattered privacy keeps people away. I just wish I knew a way to deal with this so it'd be less of a fear for others.

I use to be scared when I realized They could see my stuff. But I realized, this is the internet. They could find it anywhere, if They wanted to, so...

Note, if any of Them said hey, I'm not comfortable with being written like that, I'd stop in a heartbeat. I don't want to upset Them ever.

That said, I do hope more people come here, because I like stealing peoples souls I mean meeting new people!

Curious is there a way writers could have a choice of making their work private and just for members to see rather than public? It might help people who don't want everyone to see it until they have the courage to do so.

Yes, you can make posts members only. It is typically not encouraged, but I say leave it up for the author to decide, if they are especially nervous about sharing something.

Personally although having all the stories and art in one place would be awesome and easy to find I don't think we should be asking why people prefer to post in one area but not the other. They just prefer that layout or maybe been a part of that community for so long it suits them. If you find a story or art just tell them about us and what we do, even if they don't post here they have lurked and can pass us on to other people.

I personally do not post my art on the reddit cause I don't think it's good enough and I don't react well to negative words about my stuff.

Personally this post could have been about any other mindcrack group and not just aimed at tumblr. I think this is gonna upset people because they will know you are talking about them and people may not post any more stories or art on tumblr for fear that it will end up here or on other sites or even the mindcrack boys will see it.

I think this post could have been just hi tumblr, this is our site and what we do. Not a why don't you post here?

Just curiosity, I suppose. If there was something specific about this site people were uncomfortable with that we could change, I'd want to know how we could change to be as open as possible. But perhaps my execution wasn't well thought out in that regard, so sorry about that if I had the opposite effect. Like I said in my response to an anon, I'm not trying to pressure anyone into doing anything they don't want to. But I do want to encourage participation for those who may want to participate. That's all my intent was.

I know but I just think it would be better contacting these posters and telling them about us rather or asking if they know about us directly. I think that would have got us more people here rather than asking the lurkers why they do not post. Tumblr has a pm system that makes it more private and more likely for them to say their reasons or to come here and say hi. Just my opinion.

Ah, I don't think the 'why don't you post here?' is meant as negatively as it sounds if one writes it like that. I think the purpose of this post is more "What do we as a community here have to change to appeal more to others?"

Also I think Tumblr was just an example since the overlap there is quite visible in comparison to other sites such as lifejournal. At least that's how I see it, but then again I'm not on lifejournal.

And I don't think people from here will crosspost things from Tumblr without the knowledge of the content creator; that would be a dick move and I think we're all above that.

No but people from Tumblr can take it the wrong way and it seems they have :( but I like this community and don't think it needs to change we just need the word out there and imo a post this is doesn't do it. If we went to the tumblr people and said 'Hey post your stuff here if you want!' it would have been better.

Yeah there is way more mindcrack shipping elsewhere. I believe FB has one.

Yes but even discuss that work is a bit much for me since they maybe they lurk for whatever reason. Some might just need time to work up the courage to post on a forum and not their own blog.

I wonder if I should switch this post to members only, if it's causing more harm than help.

Not at all, this is a forum for discussion and I love how your post has created this convo of different opinions. As someone who posts here and tumblr I can see the pros and cons of your post. I just believe we would get more people by going to them. Those who have heard of us will have their reasons just to lurk and some of tumblr or wherever they post won't see this post at all because they haven't heard of mindcracklove. I just think we need to get out there and like you said shout 'Get to the damn salad' and explain why we are so wonderful!

Maybe we should start a tag for MindCrack fanworks on tumblr? So we don't have to deal with people tagging their FTB stuff. We could start a tag for ship-friendly stuff as well. The Elementary fandom has #elementasquee to get away from irrelevant/hateful/etc posts, for example, and I know it's common in a few fandoms for fans of a character who gets a lot of hate to make a separate tag for just happy and respectful art and discussion.

I thought about that too, but it would have to be unique enough not to get confused with something else and at the same time related to 'us' so that people new to our fandom will understand what it means and what it stands for.

A bit off-topic: For some reason I'm super exited right now because this community used to be so small but now it's turning into a fandom with it's own insider tags on Tumblr and stuff :3

I argee. People can tag their work as mindcracksalad for example if they want people to find it. And on tumblr they have a 'read more' cut as well.

#mindcracksalad seems like a good tag. I'd be okay with that.

Ah, well, I definitely use tumblr way more than I use DW. For me, as someone who has used tumblr for over 2 years at this point, tumblr is a lot more comfortable for me. That's mostly what it boils down to. I didn't even join DW until I found this place and decided to start posting in it. (And I do try to tag my stuff on tumblr so that it can be blocked heh). But, yeah it's slightly more intimidating using a site you're not as familiar with, at least for me (anxiety issues ugh)

Also, and I know it's silly, this place has always felt more focused on fanfic, whereas I am a fanartist and am not comfortable writing fanfic (I did write the one mini fic at like 5 am for the giggles, though, I'm not comfortable sharing it around really since fanfic's not really my element). I do usually crosspost art stuff to reddit if I feel it's worth sharing, though I haven't shared a ton of stuff here as I feel here is more shippy and I haven't made a lot of shippy stuff. /rambling now

As far as actual Mindcrackers lurking here, uh, it's never been something that's bothered me, but I can definitely imagine it might dissuade others from joining?

I don't really know the best way to solve this. I'd like everything to all be in one place, but, it's very difficult. I do like the idea of having a special tag on tumblr, that might be helpful.

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On branching communities and fragmentation

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