Serious Business Post: Mother 3 Edition

[pagat]

Disclaimers first: I'm not calling anyone a bad person. I'm not telling anyone who or what to watch. I'm not trying to demonize anyone. I just think that this is worth pointing out and discussing. People make mistakes, and they're only human, and I don't think there's a malevolent bone in MC's body. But good intentions aren't a magical force field, so I think mistakes like these are worth discussing.

Also, this post is going to be basically spoiler free. I'm not gonna be talking plot.

(Also also, if this is rambling and incoherent I'm so sorry but I'm really anxious, Not least because I know MC knows of this community/visits it sometimes. And I'm not used to being this affected by these kinds of things, so talking about it is a little weird. And I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or step out of line or anything aaah)



Alright. For those who haven't been watching, in Mother 3 there's a group who I won't be referring to by name, as it contains a rather unfortunate slur. (Yeah, g*psy is actually a racial slur. It's not common knowledge, as far as I know. But that's the translators fault, and not part of my point, so I digress.)

Anyway, this group is neither-male-nor-female. And they weren't villains or jokes! Might seem silly, but this is a big deal when you're used to things either pretending you don't exist or making fun of you. And while I don't think the game was treating them entirely seriously, it wasn't, you know, outright belittling or demonizing them. At least not at that point, I haven't watched any more. But then, MC goes and makes some throwaway comment about how 'he needs a shower' after talking to them. Which bothers me, sure, but I think I could have rolled my eyes and moved past it. "Ew" is just kind of the general consensus on people like me. It's not right, and I would have been mad, but it's kind of par for the course.

What really got to me was the "Today on Mother 3" post. After I'd heard that little comment I scrolled past it again and noticed a line about meeting "strange things". It didn't hit me at first, but then I realized, oh. They're the "strange things". And I hope it doesn't sound like I'm reading too much into it, but why not call them strange people? Strange beings? Strange creatures even, just something that acknowledges they are (and I am) human. It doesn't seem like much, but to have someone you like so easily dismiss your very humanity feels like a punch in the gut.

So it's a bit more complicated than "Hey, I'm not gross." I could deal with gross. I know what most people think of me. But I don't know how to deal with not being human. It doesn't make much sense to walk up to someone and say "Hey, I'm alive." Because of course I am alive, of course I deserve some human dignity. It would just feel absurd to bring up the fact that I'm a human being.

Though, now I feel a little silly for not seeing it coming. My first impression of the girls night video was more laughing at me than laughing with me. But MCs comments during a GMM about it made it seem like I was wrong. He talked about how painting your nails and looking pretty don't have to be just girl things, how he's really sad some people were so mean about it. It was really cool to see someone I admire actually being accepting of blurring gender lines. But now I just don't know how to feel about it.

I really don't mean to bash MC, though, please don't take it that way. The whole idea that non-cis people are gross is a product of our culture, I certainly don't think it just sprung out of his head fully formed. I don't think he has any ill intent of his own, not at all. He was one of my favorites before this, and he's normally such a sweet guy. But "you're so disgusting you're not even human" is a frightening thing to hear, even more so from someone who's usually so sweet. Because it's exactly the same justification people use to hurt people like you. It's not like they're hurting a person, after all. Just a "strange thing". Makes me sound like something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe. Ugh.

I hope I'm not just coming off as oversensitive, either. The internet is a part of the real world, and people internalize these things whether its in meatspace or not. And it really sucks when someone you like and trust suddenly comes out of nowhere with something like that.

But I'm still not sure what to do, if it's worth bothering to try to give him a heads up? Because as nice as it would be to be recognized as human, I'm just one person. I like to think he'd listen, but I can't fully convince myself that he would, after that. And, what's more, he's just one person. I'd be fooling myself if I said that most the people I watch don't think the same way. And I don't want to let that get to me, because what can I do about it? The problem isn't with specific people, it's with the whole culture. People learn those jokes from other people who learned them from other people, etc etc.

So what's your take? Similar experiences? Advice? TL;DR? Go-away-Pagat-I-came-here-for-shipping? ;)

Comments

[placeblocks]

Of course you should tell him. The worst that will happen is that he'll ignore you or not care (in which case you are justified for losing some interest in him as a person), and the best is that he'll realize how potentially insensitive it was and focus on changing that. Things will never improve if people don't say "Hey, I'm not okay with this." And I think MC is the sort of person who has the ability to realize he's doing something that may be alienating part of his fanbase (and I'm sure you're not the only one) and want to strive to correct it. Like you say, he's a sweet guy, enjoys blurring some gender lines, and, like the majority of western society, has been brought up adhering to a strict gender binary. So long as you present it in a "I love you but this hurt me, please try to understand why" way and not "YOU ARE DUMB AND HORRIBLE" etc (which is obviously not what you're doing), I'd say definitely go for it.

[isi]

At first I thought the needing a bath line was more like, "I'm done recording and now I should go bathe because I haven't done that yet" rather than as a response, but the way that sentence was structured was kind of suspicious. As for calling them things in the tweet... yeah, that one's definitely a questionable move.

The thing I'm worried about is the potential to try to dismiss it with the context of the story. I don't know anything about Mother 3 outside of what I've seen so far, but I'm not sure if the characters in question quite qualify as "human" in the story, since they apparently live for hundreds of years at least, if they're not outright ageless. Still not worth calling them things, obviously. I get where you're coming from. There's definitely an underrepresentation of gender queer characters in media, and it's not fair for the one rare example of them to be given the sub human treatment when such a treatment reinforces the negative societal attitudes toward actual gender queer people who identify with these characters.

I suppose the closest thing I can identify with on a similar level (Personal Example Time!!) is being asexual, and there being no openly asexual characters in anything ever, because no one believes it exists or knows that it can exist. The closest we get is speculation that certain characters might be asexual, but that's about it. And then that one episode of House happened... I have never watched House, but I don't think I need to, after what they did to asexual visibility. The short version: there were some asexual characters on House, only, spoilers: they were actually just faking/ had some pathological disease or something that "caused" the asexuality, but you know, all curable. Not like having a real, legitimate sexual orientation or anything.

Okay, rant over.

[pagat]

Yeah, humans not quite the right word there. It's really more the spirit of "These are inanimate objects" that I really object to.

And oh yes, I heard about that episode of House. I run in ace/aro circles a bit myself, demi-romantic? So I know exactly what you mean about that, it's just ridiculous. And then any time a show just lets you have a queer character, then its the fandoms reactions you've gotta worry about.

(Please, do feel free to rant, by the way. I'm almost always up for it.)

[isi]

The rant was just for example purposes. You did ask for similar experiences, and that's what I came up with. ^_^

[pink_sheep]

People can say things without there brain totally realising what's going to come out. Tough I don't watch a lot of mc and unfortunatly mother 3 isn't really appealing to me :( but I can lay imagine he had a 'brain slip' and to be honey evenif he does have this view. It isn't his fault if he was brought up with this view. I know hear n Britain there are still lots of hate towards trailers and people like them. Given they do get alotof rowdy behaviour and there are certain people who just like to cause trouble but its a human thing it seems to cast everyone in the same net... Like placeblocks I would tell him, it's not good especially with children being so into this stuff they may watch him and see it and use it themselves..

[pagat]

I don't quite agree that it's not his fault. Like I said, I know he's not being malicious and I know it's hard to realize you've internalized those things because they are literally everywhere. But his views are still ultimately his responsibility. I think that he's been privileged enough where he never *had* to learn about queer issues, and I get that, for sure. And he's young, yes. But he's still an adult. He's got a responsibility to himself to look at his values. And even more so, because he is popular, and people do look up to him.

I mean, part of why it bothers me is because I know he wasn't thinking about it when he said it. I know he wasn't making a conscious choice to say something nasty, that's not in his character. That's exactly the problem, is that it doesn't even register that people like me exist. And I don't know if me giving a quick "Oi!" about it would have any significant impact.

[pink_sheep]

I am to sure, like I said I just guessed from what I've seen of him (not much really jut his good morning stuff..) I agree he does seem like he was in a good enough background to have learned it now I think about it.
I'm not sure I know a lot of mindcrackers read there comments but I can't imagine all of them, maybe you should send him a message, I kow Bdubs had done it a few fptimes to explain something he said or done or a prank like pyros people thought he was being abit of a bully saying his place was worse than his design.
Apparently he got messages and comments on it so I supposed there is enough he will notice but f it's one person against the rest you may have a hard time.

[theropod]

Oh dear, I can see why that would be upsetting. Yeah, I would probably bring it up in a private message to him, maybe explaining exactly why it makes you uncomfortable and hurt, and the worst that happens is that he doesn't reply. The best is that he apologises and makes an effort to change the view that brought the comments about. It's definitely something I'd bring up -internet hugs in hopes that it helps a little-

[pagat]

-Hug accepted-

Yeah, I just need to figure out exactly what I'd like to say, at this point. I don't want to go all sob story on him, even though I think I'm justified in being hurt. But I don't want to go all technical either. Or doormat. I'm too introverted and anxious to know by intuition how to have those kinds of "my feelings are hurt" conversations.

[theropod]

Yeah, I see what you mean, I'd have trouble saying it if it were me. Maybe just try to stay polite but try to be very clear why it hurt you?

[kitsunemusume]

I'd def. message MC. It's clearly something important to you. He will read your message. He reads every youtube message (as pointed out by his own tweets). And he will address it.

I suggest emailing/redditing/twitter him your concern. Do it in a nice manner, explain what has insulted you and even tell him a bit about yourself and culture. I'm sure his comments were of him not understanding and generally judging from what the media shows. A great example of this is when he called Pakratt 'Paki' on Cobblehaterz. He was told that it was a racist slur in the uk. He addressed it on another cobblehater vid saying he was not aware and apologised and never used it again.

MC himself has been called names and insults due to his weight and as you state yourself was upset at comments to the girls' night video. I'm sure he'll be annoyed and upset with himself that he has caused his fans to lose respect for him. I'm sure that was not his intention and he will provide you with a reply.

[pink_sheep]

I feel so sorry for him now ;(...

[kitsunemusume]

Nah MC can deal with comments like that. Just silly trolls trying to get a person down. Probably not even mindcrack fans. I mean Pause has been attacked for his race too.

The internet is a wonderful place...shame some people ruin it.

[definitelynotmc]

Hey there pagat.

I am so so sorry about this, I never meant any offense or anything.

In the game, the Magypsies are 7 human-like characters that are neither human nor beast, neither man nor woman and whose age is not known. They are very important to the story and are really amazing characters. Their name is of course a mix of "magic" and "gypsy". However, I do not think it was meant to be offensive.

I did a bit of research on this just now since I was very concerned about it. Gypsy is a term used to describe the Romani ethnic group. However, here within North America, "the word gypsy is commonly used as a reference to lifestyle or fashion, and not to the Romani ethnicity." which refers to a very vibrant, feminine fashion mainly. While it can be used offensively and rudely to describe people who are cisgender like yourself, I do not think that is the intended meaning at all. However, I can see how you may be off-put by how I reacted.

I very much apologize for calling them "things" in the Twitter auto-post. I was not in any way trying to attack anyone as being "un-human" more so trying to add mystery to the post to attract viewers. I see now it was a poor choice of words. If it is any consolation, in the video description I say how we went in search of his "strange... friends." referring both to the Magypsies and the Arrow Lizards.

The similar apologies need to be made about the shower comment. Afterwards I was apprehensive about how it sounded, but I let it go, not thinking it was that horrible. Obviously I was wrong. So again apologies to you.

I have no issue with anyone who is cisgender, asexulal, bisexual, transexual, homosexual, heterosexual, etc. Like you recognized, in my Girl's Night video I had my hair straightened, nails painted and had a grand time with my fellow friends. I was offended by people who thought this was weird, especially because I was just having a good time.

I don't care what anybody chooses to wear, chooses to be, how to live, and who to love. I find that having your life your own way, and not lieing to yourself is essential to a happy life.

I never meant any offense, and I do not believe the creators or translators of Mother 3 did either. Hopefully you can accept my apology, I will take a lesson from this to watch better what I say.

[pagat]

Apology accepted, and thank you for understanding and being a sweetheart about it. It means a lot.

[mindcrack_love]

Thank you for this, for being sensitive and honest about your views and your mistakes. I really appreciate it.

Will you mention this topic in another video or Tweet? It doesn't have to mention this place at all, but I do think others need to hear what you've said.

If you'd like to do some more reading on not-cis people and all that, let me know and I'll wrangle up some links. As I said when pagat first brought it up, it's something that even a lot of other queer folk have trouble comprehending and managing, so it's sadly often pushed under the rug.